keyspan sx serial cards

[Syntho]

I'll just download the manual 

I'm using a crossover serial cable with two extension cables at the moment. I bet I could squeeze even another on there and it'd be fine. I don't think there would be much of a problem with using extensions, it's just a signal being sent through it and if it's 'there' it's there.

[coachla]

Check out Doug Wyatt's musings if there are mentions of cables...not sure.

I'm using 20 year old cables, very long.

With a Studio 5, you may have to run either in Compatibility mode or in OMS mode on both serial ports. Read the manual on this. An MTP can allocate one port to OMS and one to Freemidi because there are MTP drivers in both of those system folders (always use Motu's newest MTP OMS driver, NOT the stock one with OMS's installer when using in Compatibility mode with OMS itself). Maybe the Studio 5 can do both separate addresses in OMS mode if you use the Freemidi Studio 5 driver. I didn't find that driver reliable...just my experience. Swap out the serial connections if no luck with one or the other.  Nevertheless, even if you use Freemidi using OMS, and on a separate port, collisions should not occur. You can always go in and set up virtual controllers and instruments to bifurcate data if necessary.

[coachla]

Syntho.... Heads up on this....i just refreshed myself on this....I knew there was a reasonable doubt lingering. I was recalling why I myself wasn't using the aforementioned MTP setup in my last reply suggesting the Studio 5 be substituted. Take note.... Disregard my using the Studio 5  to separate OMS and Freemidi...it's only for Motu interfaces.

The Studio 5 dual serial configuration isn't like two networked MTPs really.  It sends external hardware synth data only into one port whilst the data generated by the Studio 5 itself such as smpte etc is sent into the other. So my suggestion for the MTP setup will not send all data equally into both Studio 5 ports as hoped.

Two MTPs (I do it with one MTP and two separate computers) and possibly two MidiExpresses (likewise with one old MidiExpress and two separate computers) will do this, which is my original suggestion. The serial ports are basically interchangable and carry all types of data. It doesn't translate to the Studio 5. Unfortunately.

Still the Studio 5 reigns supreme for midi timing with the Keyspan....

[Syntho]

The problem with 2x MTPs is that one of the serial ports for networking another MTP will kill the idea of OMS + FreeMidi separately. You'll have used the additional  port for the 2nd MTP. Unless you can connect it like so:

Keyspan Modem - MTP port A - (MTP port B out) - MTP2 port A
Keyspan Printer - MTP2 port B

But I'm unsure if that would work.

I think I got OMS working OK w/FreeMidi once I pulled those Unitors out of my rig. I'll test some more and just get a Studio 5 if it's stable now.

[Syntho]

By the way, which MTP version should I get if I choose that? There's a I, II, AV, and probably some other MOTU midi interfaces that'll work just fine.

I'm hooping I can get OMS/FreeMidi working together though. I'll get a Studio 5 in that case.

[coachla]

II....not serial  AV. Network as you describe...it works.

The other option is to do on your one computer what i do on two. I, as a second editing option, can send all sysex to and from the Studio 5 via remote cpu using  two midi cables and one midi express. You can internally route both interfaces to do this. So you would put your XT on the Freemidi printer port and the Studio 5 on the OMS modem port. That is the solution to separating them. The two midi cables go from one pair of in/outs on the XT to one pair of in/outs on the Studio 5. It actually handles all the data, though I don't often rely on this because, as I said, the main MDD can do it all using OMS.

Signing out....will check in over the next 24 hours...

[Syntho]

I think I'm just gonna get a Studio 5. If you can get OMS and FreeMidi playing together fine, I should be able to as well. It was fine from what I remembered but I'm not in the studio at the moment.

Now I just have to worry about soldering those freakin' cables 

[supernova777]

the MTP 1,2 + AV all have the same networking capabilities of combining into a pair (master/slave) configuration to be 1-8,9-16 making 16 ins + outs on a single mac serial port
so does the MTP AV USB it just costs a bit more, but it still has the serial connection capability

if u have a need for 13+ midi ins + outs SIMULTANEOUSLY then it sounds like the studio 5 would be a good buy
i also am a fan of it having its own built in PSU and taking a standard 120v power lead. (personallly i hate having too many wall wart power supplies)
but keep in mind that an internal psu can also be a problem if it shorts out .. i have also seen a bunch of studio 5LX being sold "For parts" so be carefull of the condition of the unit u purchase.

i really dont understand all this stuff about the cables being crossover cables?
were u able to confirm CoachLA's experience that the card works with the driver for at least one midi mgmt package (OMS or FREEmidi) ?

[Syntho]

It works completely fine in both OMS and FreeMidi. Get one of those cards, they're good. Just use the driver I posted 

I kinda want to buy another one for a backup 

There are different pinouts/wirings for serial cables. Some Mac products take a standard, straight-through-wired (1-1, 2-2, 3-3 etc) wiring, but the Emagic, Opcode, and MOTU midi interfaces ALL take a different wiring. I posted it above.

[Syntho]

This is the correct wiring for a Minidin 8-pin serial cable to connect all of the aforementioned midi interfaces to your serial ports:



However ignore where it says Female and Male. You need a Male to Male serial cable with that same wiring for this to work.

[supernova777]

the pin configuration (minidin8) is not exclusive to apple/mac's there are other products that used that same configuration or similar configurations

all the cables are the same as far as i know if u have a cable that is wired differently u have been sold a cable that is not a mac serial cable
someones probably goof'd and sold u a cable that isnt a mac cable at all even tho it looks like one, if u have a cable that doesnt work.

[Syntho]

Search around on Ebay and Google. 99% of the time you'll encounter straight-through wiring on Mac serial cables.

[supernova777]

Search around on Ebay and Google. 99% of the time you'll encounter straight-through wiring on Mac serial cables.

ive never had a problem of having a cable that didnt work
all of the mac cables that i own all function the same way
both the ones that were packaged with my midi interfaces when i bought them
and the ones i bought from an electronics surplus store in my area
function the same

i dont need to worry about the pinout configuration
i pick up the cable and plug it in on both ends and thats the end of it;)

if u want to call them crossover cables then i guess u can call them crossover cables
they are all normal mac serial cables for me and they all work..

like i said in my other post i think u were given a cable that is wired differently for some other implentation or use other then with geoport/serial?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeoPort

The table below shows the name and purpose of the various pins in the GeoPort-enabled serial connector when used in GeoPort, RS-422 (LocalTalk) and RS-232 modes.

 Pin #   GeoPort    RS-422    RS-232    Name
   1      SCLK       HSKo      DTR      Serial Clock (out), Handshake Out, Data Terminal Ready
   2      SCLK       HSKi      DSR      Serial Clock (in), Handshake In, Data Set Ready
   3      TxD-       TxD-      TD       Transmit data (-ve signal)
   4      GND        GND       GND      Cable ground
   5      RxD-       RxD-      RD       Receive data (-ve signal)
   6      TxD+       TxD+               Transmit data (+ve signal)
   7      TxHS       GPi       CD       Wakeup/DMA Request, General Purpose input, Carrier Detect
   8      RxD+       RxD+      (ground) Receive data (+ve signal)
   9      +5 V                          Power, 350 mA maximum

notice this table is detailing the difference between RS-422 specification and the RS-232 specification
both of which use the same pin scheme

i think that this is the source of your issues with cables.. u have been given a rs-232 cable instead of a rs-422 cable
or vice versa - i think this is kind of confusing to really get to the bottom of because its antiquated and there was alot of different
serial configurations for specific purposes.. i think that most of the normal mac serial cables did indeed have this crossover
rx -> tx and tx-> rx configuration.. maybe the straight thru cables were inteded as "Extension" cables of some sort?

http://www.omega.com/techref/das/rs-232-422-485.html

this page is talking about some differences between the two specs
saying that 422 is builtin support for daisy chaining devices (referd to here as multi-drop?)
whereas 232 does not support this and also says that pcs dont come with rs-422 ports at all

with this info i think its safe to say that the mac port is rs-422
and thats the reason why the mtp's have this networking feature

[supernova777]

It works completely fine in both OMS and FreeMidi. Get one of those cards, they're good. Just use the driver I posted 

just curious about your exact configuration that you tested..
keyspan sxpro4 + midi express XT serial interface /w OMS?
am i right?

is the unit u have? (see attach)

oops that ones the usb model
i meant to attach this:

[Syntho]

There are crossover/null modem/TX-RX serial cables for old Mac printers and modems, and serial cables that are wired straight-through (also for Macs). The former is harder to find these days, especially in longer lengths, and the latter is what most will run into if they run a search for Mac serial cables. You just happened to get lucky that you got some old printer/modem crossovers at the Surplus store.


Keyspan - Express XT - OMS/FreeMidi. That's it 

[supernova777]

i guess im a lucky s.o.b then 

did u do any midi timing tests?  (accuracy of capture/playback midi)
logic? cubase?

[Syntho]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motu-Midi-Express-XT-8x8-Serial-Port-Interface-MIDI-Interface-/271546005656?pt=US_Computer_Recording_Interfaces&hash=item3f39673898


They made a USB version of this too.

[supernova777]

nice i wish mine used 120v power like that

[coachla]

Are you up and running, Syntho?

[Syntho]

Going into the studio in a few. If OMS and FreeMidi play together well I'm set. I'll report back in a bit.