keyspan sx serial cards

[Syntho]

Hey Coachla, have you had any trouble with FreeMidi being integrated with OMS? It seems to crash, and crash, and crash my system but works fine when they're not interlinked.

[supernova777]

Hey Coachla, have you had any trouble with FreeMidi being integrated with OMS? It seems to crash, and crash, and crash my system but works fine when they're not interlinked.

yeah i was going to say on the other thread, re unisyn, freemidi + oms together? yikes... i didnt know u could use both at the same time i thought it was one or the other installed at any given time..

[Syntho]

You can use both at the same time, independently, and that works much better than having them actually 'linked' and speaking together. That's why I bought this Keyspan card, plus I've got some other serial gear to connect so it only made sense to get one.

When I selected for FreeMidi to use itself instead of sending the data to OMS, Unisyn stopped crashing, at least for now. I hope that keeps up.

[coachla]

OMS and Freemidi can address different ports, modem or printer, so you can use Diver and Unisyn simultaneously. You can also choose to have Freemidi use OMS exclusively. Another option is to use the Freemidi OMS emulator extension, one caveat being it only addresses the first port of Unity DS-1, regardless of which one you choose to use.

Okay... let's put it this way: Can anyone verify on any computer midi data coming into anything but the sum input in Logic 5 or 6's physical input object in the environment? It's a long standing bug. Only the topmost sum input brings in data. The individual inputs below the sum input on the physical input object do not work. In Logic, these are called midi ports or cables. The sum input is the sum of all the input cables below. On an MTP there are 8. A Studio 5 has 15. The physical input represents those cables on the interface. But in reality only the sum input works.

[Syntho]

Can Sounddiver use FreeMidi? I know Logic can because you said so. How are you personally using FreeMidi/OMS? I kept crashing and crashing and crashing so I chose "Use FreeMidi" instead of FreeMidi using OMS. I don't know if the OMS emulator extension you mentioned is in use that way or so.



I don't have the printer or modem ports running just yet. Actually, I don't know why Logic is showing these P/M ports at all considering my machine doesn't have any (yet... guess it's left over from serial macs?). As far as I know all midi data coming into Logic goes through the Sum until you replug a cable, which cuts it off from the Sum and goes wherever you connect the cable to.

There's an area in Logic where "Midi Communications" or whatever it's titled is - go there and go to OMS Input Mapping. I had to select my master midi controller as one of the objects in this area so I could actually get data into Logic from it. It only gives you about 8 inputs (8 flip menus for 8 objects) IIRC, but there's a setting above that that you can tick called something like "Connect all real inputs..." and that'll turn on all inputs instead of setting them manually. Your entire midi rig's outputs will be blasting into Logic with that setting on.

If you disable OMS, I'm pretty positive the individual output cables will work, but to do this with OMS on, try the input mapping page. There's also Output mapping connections for you to set up in the same area as well and that's good for when you don't want to use OMS.

[IIO]

sounddiver can not use freemidi itself, but fgreemidi can be used alongside OMS and there is a freemidi OMS driver for that reason.

i remember vaguely that i installed and tested freemidi "in" OMS for the beta test of "modularing" software and it worked.

however i believe that you are better advised not to mix up your tinker corner with your serious studio work corner. OMS and sounddiver and mac os 9 are unstable enough, and if you really want to control 20 hardware devices to produce music i wouldnt do that with 7.5., freemidi,  and serial PCI cards of unknown origin but get an usb interface from motu or steinberg for 80 euro for that.

btw sounddiver - yesterday i was thinking about we should collect all ewxisting additional, third party sounddvier extensions here. before they disappear forever.

[coachla]

The OMS emulator extension is quite old but it allows you to use Freemidi impersonating OMS. OMS need not be installed... in this case Freemidi is the only one running. I know with this scenario Logic 4 versions work, though I would not go that route. The other way is to use OMS (i.e. for Sounddiver), and choose use OMS in Freemidi prefs. This way Freemidi (i.e. for DP) is slaved to OMS. Personally I never found Freemidi to be friendly or stable, especially on SCSI Macs. I have run OMS with Logic and Sounddiver and Unisyn simultaneously without any problems. Note, however, I don't record audio or use VSTs on my sequencing MDD with Logic. If I were to run DP or Unisyn that require Freemidi, I would choose use OMS if available in Freemidi prefs.

Keyspan PCI is solid.... very little jitter on a rig with hardware racks. USB is a power drain and doesn't handshake without delay. But if you've got it to work for you, by all means stay with it. There are so many variables....

Two Studio 5's networked would use M1-M30 on a real modem port without OMS. But only the sum input works even without OMS. My point is that the individual inputs do not work in Logic 5&6. Individual outputs always work, no problem.

There are many things in Logic that will make no sense until you use it enough and discover that in Logic there is ALWAYS a workaround. My favorite is the alert box: "Circular Structure! Please report to Emagic how you did this!" ( You will see that you are now recording in the trash folder or some such nonsense.)

So everyone who sees that alert should call Apple and report it. That'll teach them for buying out Emagic.....

Syntho, I'm aware of how things are supposed to work, as you describe. I'm only talking about input cables not working, i.e. M1-M32 and P1-P32.

How about a screenshot of the monitor showing data and connected to M1-M8 physical inputs using OMS? Just kidding.... it was one of those steps down in the evolution of Logic from version 4. But it really is only significant if you are inputting multiple hardware device data...things could get messy at only the sum input.

[Syntho]

When my keyspan card gets here I'll check it out and let you know if it does the same.

Why wouldn't you go the route of using the old OMS emulator extension? Had trouble with it?

For some reason my system was brought to a halt and everything kept crashing (Unisyn in particular). My midi interface (Unitor would lock up and need to be reset. I believe my setup was the 2nd method you mentioned, the one where FreeMidi sends data to OMS via selecting "Use OMS" in FreeMidi. If I can work out the bug that's making me crash, that would probably be my permanent setup. It will be great to use both Unisyn and Sounddiver simultaneously...

EDIT: Also, is it commonplace to link two serial devices? My Midi Express XT has two serial ports so maybe I can use another serial cable to network the two instead of using two of the Keyspan's ports. If it goes to M32 and P32, then that means I can probably network 4 of them together.

[coachla]

I think the extension was Freemidi 1.3. Buggy. Why do you need Freemidi other than to launch Unisyn? What version of Logic ar you using? How about this?.... Assign Logic and Diver to the emulated modem on the Keyspan, using OMS to address that port only, and connecting it to the Midi Express primary serial port. Assign Unisyn to the emulated printer port on the Keyspan, using Freemidi to address that port only, and connecting it to the network serial port on the Midi Express. Then you need Motu's MTP Console app to cable both the Midi Express serial ports to all of it's midi ports. This way OMS and Freemidi will not cross paths on your Mac. The Mac will address your Midi Express as two independent units, but in reality OMS and Freemidi will have access to the same hardware connected to the single Midi Express. I have an MTP set up this exact way. I used to have a Midi Express configured . But you have to use MTP Console to recable the internal routings to acheive this. Realistically, It's enough to have only one sum input for you main controller in Logic. Diver and Unisyn both use discreet cables, and Sysex uses machine ID's to separate the strings from one another.

What Mac and what OS are you using? Must you use Unisyn? Diver is much more versatile generally, except in a few cases where checksums fail in certain adaptations, with the Kawai K3M for example. I would run Logic and Diver on separate serial ports as described above, and be glichless (unless you must use autolink names, but it's not worth the trouble really).

[Syntho]

FreeMidi is all the way up to 1.48. That's what I've got installed, but maybe the extension is only from 1.3?

As mentioned linking OMS and FreeMidi was crashing my system and I found that FreeMidi on its own worked much better. I'm using Logic 6.4.3 and a 1.25ghz MDD with OS9.2.2. If I can get FreeMidi working properly by selecting "Use OMS" in the FreeMidi preferences then I'll do that, but again it crashed a lot. Maybe FreeMidi doesn't like my Unitor 8 or something...

Another option would be getting FreeMidi to recognize my Unitor 8, but I think FreeMidi can only address MOTU units as well as actual serial ports. The Unitor 8 HAS serial ports, but I need that serial port for networking two together unfortunately.

I'll take a look over your post again once I've got the Keyspan.

[coachla]

You shouldn't have any problem then setting up as I described. It should be very smooth sailing.

When you install and open the Keyspan SX Manager software, don't fuss with any settings. Just make sure the first two ports are set to emulate printer and emulate modem. That's all...

[Syntho]

You have absolutely no problems at all with "Use OMS" on your rig? That's your main setup? I'm guessing it's the freakin' Unitor 8 since it's a USB model. I remember having to power cycle it to get it working again (even after rebooting), so maybe I'm gonna switch back to some Opcode or MOTU serial units. I'll run some tests and see what happens.

The only thing I'll miss about the Unitor 8s is the AMT feature which gives better midi timing in Logic.

[supernova777]

The only thing I'll miss about the Unitor 8s is the AMT feature which gives better midi timing in Logic.

i may be wrong but to me that whole AMT thing seemed more like a marketting technique to reassure people that usb was an ok buy for midi because it was made public general knowledge that usb may be inferior to the older serial interface midi units as far as timing goes..  so what happens? all of a sudden they come out with some new technology  + acronyms.. buyer reassurance is what it looks like to me!! a little sprinkling of pixie dust

[Syntho]

I just enabled Use OMS in FreeMidi and here's what happened: Unisyn (2.02) crashes and gives a Type 1 error (maybe it was a Type 2, don't remember). After having it crash three times when trying to open I successfully got it open, but then it couldn't communicate with my Korg synth. I noticed my Unitor 8 blinking oddly so I closed Unisyn and the blinking was still there. Then I tried opening Unisyn again and it froze my entire MDD. I remember opening Digital Performer and it also froze my MDD when FreeMidi was using OMS.

That's why I don't use OMS w/FreeMidi but as mentioned I'll try with my Midi Express XT tonight when my Keyspan gets here.

To give a further note, I did get the OMS/FreeMidi combo working a time of two, but I noticed that some bad midi data was being sent to my synth and things went haywire. It's sending patch parameter data that's unlike the stored patch. I'm going to test the same thing when my serial interface is up and running and compare.

[Syntho]

KeyspanSXCard14b3.sea - is that all that I need? Chris posted that earlier.

[coachla]

That's the link I gave him...yes. I never used anything but serial MIDI. I would agree the suspicion lies with the Unitor. My main MDD is a dual 1.25 with Logic 4.7 and not running audio, only midi on that machine. Those Types are memory issues. Thats a Freemidi question mark right there.

Don't bother linking them... run both OMS and Freemidi as I outlined. Keep them blind to one another. I've run a 9500 as a remote Diver/Unisyn editing duo quite succesfully this way, sending sysex back to the MDD's Studio 5LX and back out to the hardware racks.

As ChrisNova777 says, it's hype.... All these companies were also being unhappily forced by Apple to make the transition to OSX, and USB was a part of it.

[supernova777]

\
As ChrisNova777 says, it's hype.... All these companies were also being unhappily forced by Apple to make the transition to OSX, and USB was a part of it.

dont forget that emagic + apple were all cozy cozy with each other at about this time too..
probably they arranged this to have a monopoly + take over the audio spectrum by being 'first to market' with the new USB midi interfaces.. guaranteed emagic had the heads up from apple that they were dropping the serial interfaces.. they could have easily kept geoports on the g3b&w
but then everyone would never have had to buy any new hardware!!! but to be fair (and i dont like  believing in conspiracy theories anyway) USB was evolving at the time.. from 1.1 to 2.0 so it was a big deal. everything was going usb not just midi interfaces...

[Syntho]

I just looked over your instructions. The problem I spot is that I'm going to need to network two Express XTs to have all of my hardware going. Right now I've got a Unitor and an AMT8 linked with a serial cable, and the Unitor going into the PC via USB.

Doesn't Opcode make a serial interface with 16 midi ports? I need about 12-13 to get my entire rig hooked up.

[supernova777]

I just looked over your instructions. The problem I spot is that I'm going to need to network two Express XTs to have all of my hardware going. Right now I've got a Unitor and an AMT8 linked with a serial cable, and the Unitor going into the PC via USB.

Doesn't Opcode make a serial interface with 16 midi ports? I need about 12-13 to get my entire rig hooked up.

i dont think u can network the XT models
u would have to buy a pair of studio 4's on the cheap!

[Syntho]

You can.