Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)

[Cloaked Alien]

Sweeet =)

I tried installing from the 9.2.2. thats _supposedly_ for iMac G4 (flat panel) but it said it wasn't compatible. Any way around this?

OS 9-compatible "iLamps" have Geforce 4MX cards, just as in my model, so that in itself shouldn't be an issue. I haven't been able to find anything about the audio chipsets just yet though.

I did find some Nvidia Driver update and an Apple Media update but both refuse to install saying they're not compatible with my machine.

I'm guessing extensions and drivers are pretty much the same thing so if I can get the extensions from that install cd  it might work. I'm guessing they might be hidden in one of those "tome" files?

Or perhaps it's just a Mac ROM issue. I'd be happy to try out anything you throw at me =)

And I'll try to check the other things as well. I've got no firewire equipment or cables to test with but USB and Ethernet should be simple enough.

[supernova777]

great work guys 

[Cloaked Alien]

I heard from another user that Mac OS ROM can indeed affect drivers. I have yet to experience this myself. Albeit he claimed to have used a newer rom and from what I've gathered that 10.2.1 is the latest?

[Cloaked Alien]

Oh, I found another 9.2.2. install cd that's supposedly for iMac, it doesn't yell at me when trying to install so I'll have a go with it.

It comes with the Mac OS ROM 9.1.1

[MacTron]

NONE OF THE G4 POWERMACS WITH A 7447A/B CPU CAN BOOT OS9 NATIVELY!

Yes, but this is more a Firmware restriction than a Mac Os 9/ Mac Os ROM problem. The 7447 and 7448 upgrades usually patch the Firmware not Mac Os 9/ Mac Os ROM to properly work.

I heard from another user that Mac OS ROM can indeed affect drivers. I have yet to experience this myself. Albeit he claimed to have used a newer rom and from what I've gathered that 10.2.1 is the latest?

This is definitely a central point. That's the Mac Os ROM 10.2.1 is the way to go because it can startup most if no ALL of the Macs that can run Mac Os 9 and this show us that this rom has the wide range of drivers for a computer startup Mac Os 9...

In fact Mac OS 9.2.2 was released in December 5, 2001. And what did Apple to enable Mac Os 9 in later computers models? : upgrade the Mac Os ROM, until they decided to stop of doing it...

You can startup without Audio or Video drivers (Video cards usually have a very slow "compatible" mode without drivers), but what do you think would happen when the SO try to initialize some motherboard chips with different behavior than expected... by example, a unknown Uninorth (may be the case of Mac Mini) or ATA 133 after a weird bridge (the case of a G4 Server) or a completely unknown Motherboard (the case Of G5)

What happens is a completely system crash.

... and by the way: congratulations for your success.

Don't forget to try the very last nVidia drivers:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1100.0

[SnakeCoils]

Well, as promised here are the MacOS ROMs I have edited so far accordingly to 68KMLA instructions, I hope we now have enough material to experiment with :-)

MDD FW400 (from OS9general.dmg)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/12u48n55hhk82dh/MacOSROM_951mod.zip

Apple Diagnostic CD (March 2003)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/jada8sziwenyadf/MacOSROM_981mod.zip

OSX 10.4.11 Classic Install package

http://www.mediafire.com/download/a6ajgzsk346dzwa/MacOSROM_1021mod.zip

About the audio problem I think it may be essentially a driver issue, for example if I throw to my MDD a generic 9.2.2 installation I have no audio because the chip in this machine is different from the previous so trying different drivers (in this case it is more appropriate talking of Extensions) from different packages can activate the audio again on a particular PowerMac. It is only a matter of trial and error until some result comes up.
About the iMac (non OS9 factory enabled) refusing to install a 9.2.2 it is normal: if I try to install a 9.2.2 to my MDD via the normal CD it simply does not go ahead because it is not a recognized machine, in fact the only way to have OS9 on a MDD is to copy the whole structure of OS9general.dmg in a blank partition, no Installer required.
The OS9 for MDD is a custom install but maybe the most recent environment of this kind we have, definitively a good point to start and customize further to be full working for a particular PowerMac.

[SnakeCoils]

Yes, but this is more a Firmware restriction than a Mac Os 9/ Mac Os ROM problem. The 7447 and 7448 upgrades usually patch the Firmware not Mac Os 9/ Mac Os ROM to properly work.

Mmmmm... maybe this mean that IF we can apply a firmware patch from the various CPU upgrades manufacturer on a 7447 PowerMac MAYBE the OS9 would be bootable (with the help of a modded MacOS ROM of course) on unsupported machines? 

[MacTron]

Well, as promised here are the MacOS ROMs I have edited so far accordingly to 68KMLA instructions, I hope we now have enough material to experiment with :-)

Your files were destroyed by a zip compressor.

Can You please compress it with Stuffit and upload it again?
Small files like those, can be attached to post, so no mediafire needed.
Thank You.

[SnakeCoils]

Your files were destroyed by a zip compressor.

The ROM files were compressed under OSX 10.5.8 (PPC) with the default archiver, they expands well under X. I've just seen that Stuffit under OS9 does not decompress them correctly, the end size is wrong. I'll see what I can do :-)

[Cloaked Alien]

Ugh. I managed to break my OS 9 install completely. Can't get it to work at all now. Despite redoing my previous steps (disk setup in OS 9 in case the OS 9 drivers broke) =S

Not sure what's up with that.

Edit: Apparently it lost it's blessing. Which is strange considering I reinstalled from scratch. Whatever, it was solved by simply browsing the system folder using one of my 9.2.2. startup discs O o

[SnakeCoils]

Here are the ROMs above compressed with Stuffit 5.5 in OS 9.2.2 on my MDD. Enjoy! :-)

[Cloaked Alien]

Finally got everything set up properly again. Tested 9.8.1 ROM, boot just fine but still no audio (mic seems to work, mind you)

Installing updated NVidia drivers didn't do anything either, how can I check if they're loaded (system includes ATI drivers as well).

Gonna try the 9.5.1 ROM =)
Edit: 9.5.1 ROM boots just fine as well, no driver difference.
Edit 2: I've thrown out the ATI extensions and I've checked my extension versions with System Profiler. I've got Apple Audio Extension 2.1.1 and it's enabled.
Edit 3: Welp! Apparently audio works just fine if I plug in earphones. The stock speakers won't work however. Hmmm. Is there any difference in hardware between the 1GHz models and oldes ones?
Edit 4: Oh, and I almost forgot. Ethernet and USB is working just fine under OS9.

Would you mind trying to modify the 9.1.1 ROM? I can provide it for you if you need it. It's the one that comes with the CD I've used.

MacTron: Is a newer Mac OS ROM _always_ preferred? I mean, in my case is there even the possibility that the 9.1.1 ROM actually supports my hardware better?

Can't really see why I wouldn't get sound and graphics working properly =S

[Cloaked Alien]

It occurred to me to test the USB-based speakers that comes with the G4 Cube, and those just works!

Mind you, the only output device I can ever choose is "Built-in", but when plugging in headphones or the usb speakers the icon on the "speakers" tab correctly changes.

For me, personally, this is a viable solution. For the community however I would like to see it solved. My main issue at hand though is the graphics =S

[SnakeCoils]

Would you mind trying to modify the 9.1.1 ROM? I can provide it for you if you need it. It's the one that comes with the CD I've used.

No problem, send me via PM the unmodified Mac ROM (compressed with DropStuff) and I'll apply the edit. Also I have found two extra ROMs to play with, the 8.4 from OS 9.2.1 update and the 8.7 from the 9.2.2 update, I'll post them later this afternoon.

[SnakeCoils]

As promised here we have two new additions to the modded Mac ROMs collection, in detail:

Mac OS ROM 8.4 from OS 9.2.1 Updater
Mac OS ROM 8.7 from OS 9.2.2 Updater

They are attached to this post. Enjoy! :-)

[Cloaked Alien]

8.7 ROM didn't even allow it to boot =P

I kinda figured as much though ^^

Anyways, what do you think about the theory that the NVidia drivers might have to be hacked? I'm nowhere near as skilled with the internals of OS9 to know how to check if a driver is even loaded. I can see that the extension is enabled, but that's hardly the same thing as it detecting the hardware/system =)

[SnakeCoils]

I don't know anything about hacking the graphics drivers, the only case I am aware of is the notorious set of modified ATI extensions that enable the use of Radeon 9250 cards under OS9, otherwise the GPU acceleration would not been enabled since the card ID is not recognized by OEM and retail drivers.

[Cloaked Alien]

Okay, so now I've tested 9.1.1 and 9.7.1 ROMs as well, thank you!
Boots just fine but doesn't seem to make any difference to the system, at all.

To my knowledge there isn't any ROM newer than 10.2.1 either is there?

Maybe we just got to be patient and see if anyone else chimes in. It would seem like they were stuck at the same point as me/us in the 68kmla-forums so I posted there before hope that someone would have taken it further.

[MacTron]

... only case I am aware of is the notorious set of modified ATI extensions that enable the use of Radeon 9250 cards under OS9, otherwise the GPU acceleration would not been enabled since the card ID is not recognized by OEM and retail drivers.

¿?

Can you please open a thread and explain this?...
I'm very interested in this one
Thank You in advance.

[supernova777]

why are you guys worried about the rom version
its the openfirmware that was the fix