Author Topic: Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)  (Read 54380 times)

supernova777

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #75 on: October 15, 2014, 02:18:58 PM »
if they did the imac g4 lock out of os9 bootability the same way as the g4 MDD FW800..
the ability to recognize the toolbox image was just *disabled* at firmware level --that is -- the machines firmware
 that is stored in flash ram accessed by "openfirmware" bios...
which is why this extra code (or lack of toolbox image handling code) was removed by flashing the machines firmware with the fw400 firmware

why would it be any different with the "X only" imac flat panel?

which makes me think of the question:
did anyone try to look at this firmware file with a hex editor?

the firmware of the fw400 g4 mdd?
https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/10773/apple-g4-firmware-updater-x
"PMG4FWUpdate.dmg.bin"

Quote
The Power Mac G4 Firmware Update 4.4.8 will run only on Power Mac G4 computers with Mirrored Drive Doors. The Power Mac G4 Firmware Update 4.4.8 improves fan control behavior and reduces high speed fan cycling when running in Mac OS 9.

if it wasnt for this fan problem they would never have made this file available.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #76 on: October 15, 2014, 05:05:19 PM »
why would it be any different with the "X only" imac flat panel?

Because they had a little problem with Apple Harware Test for the iMac 800 15"  Os X only ... LOL
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supernova777

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #77 on: October 16, 2014, 11:35:56 PM »
just an update.. i found mac os rom 10.1.1 inside the bootable image for the emac 800mhz restore disc

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #78 on: October 17, 2014, 04:47:31 AM »
just an update.. i found mac os rom 10.1.1 inside the bootable image for the emac 800mhz restore disc

Yes, this 10.1.1 ROM adds support for the emac.
The 10.2.1 MDD version don't adds support for new models, may be it is just a bug fix...

Probably both rooms boot the iMac 800 15" (Os X only), besides the famous Custer ROM.
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supernova777

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #79 on: October 17, 2014, 07:54:43 AM »
i thought the whole purpose of this thread was to extend the same theory that made the fw800 g4 able to boot os9
via a machine firmware downgrade

the mac os rom played no part in enabling the fw800 to boot mac os 9..
i realize that some people have had some success by hacking the rom, but this was only partial success.

shouldnt the approach be focused on extracting the firmware from the 700mhz + 800mhz imac g4s that have true os9 support
and then on forcing a firmware flash of that firmware to the x only 800mhz imac g4 via openfirmware??

Offline MacTron

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #80 on: October 17, 2014, 08:37:12 AM »
The main purpose of this thread is "Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)"
In some cases only the proper ROM is needed.
In others only some "unknown" settings in Open Firmware.
In other cases, a version downgraded firmware is needed.
And in other cases all of the above... and who knows what's more... LOL
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supernova777

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #81 on: October 17, 2014, 08:39:50 AM »
my point is the rom file didnt work 100%  ;D
but the firmware down grade of the fw800 -> fw400 did work 100%!

so its my opinion we should be trying 100% ;D to extract the firmware file from the working mac os 9 model!!
using any means neccessary

we alreadyknow how to force the firmware downgrade once we have the file..
so all we need is the extracted firmware file

the sources:
http://www.everymac.com/mac-answers/mac-os-9-classic-support-faq/last-macs-to-boot-startup-macos-9.html

if we could get all these firmwares from these machines in file format wed be rockin+rollin ;D

Offline Anonymous Freak

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #82 on: January 28, 2015, 06:03:43 PM »
Sorry for reviving an old thread.

I'm actually hoping someone in this thread has restore discs for the OS 9-supported 17" iMac G4.  The short-lived one that came with 9.2.2 and 10.1.5.  I have a booting copy of OS 9 on it now, but it doesn't have the GeForce 4MX drivers, so OS 9 games are slow.  (I'd like the whole restore disc set, as I do like to load a complete 'original' hard drive image on to systems - so I want the custom 10.1.5 build that it uses, too; since I can't get 10.1 to work on it for anything.)

Thanks in advance!

supernova777

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #83 on: January 28, 2015, 06:14:05 PM »
Sorry for reviving an old thread.

I'm actually hoping someone in this thread has restore discs for the OS 9-supported 17" iMac G4. 

Thanks in advance!


i think this is what you are looking for
DOWNLOAD LINK: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/yn2amtrfasm3s/2002_imacG4

as the file indicates its the original install/restore discs from the 2002 imac g4
Please note: ***these are zip files which i believe were packaged on a modern version of mac os x.. + therefore i reccommend they first be extracted on mac os x (tiger, leopard, snow leopard or higher) (not mac os 9) and then burned to cds***

checking everymac.com for every mac from 2002 we see:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_year/macs-released-in-2002.html

which includes 3 models of flat panel imac g4 from 2002:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_700_fp.html
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_800_fp.html
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_800_17_fp.html

not sure which of the 3 this is from, perhaps its universal between these 3
and perhaps it will also work fine with the 2003 flat panel models aswell which include:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_800_fp_macosx.html
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.0_17_fp.html

if your model is the imac 800mhz 17" :
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_800_17_fp.html

then these files should work for you 100% ;D



« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 06:53:54 PM by chrisNova777 »

Offline baraktorvan

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #84 on: August 18, 2015, 02:13:02 AM »
Well, an update of sorts.

I used the Unsupported G4s ISO and it does boot my iMac G4 1 Ghz flat panel.

The only issue is I have no sound at all. No fraking with the Sound control panel and the volume is turned up.

I still get the startup chime though. the nVidia chip has no issues.

Would be nice though to have some sound. . . . .

supernova777

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #85 on: August 18, 2015, 02:35:12 AM »
easily fixable by using any addon sound card ... usb or firewire !
congrats

Offline baraktorvan

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #86 on: August 18, 2015, 02:50:04 AM »
Well, yeah, I suppose so. Just unfortunate it does not work with the internal speaker! Especially when I have replacement Pro speakers on the way after my 15" iMac died a smoky death. 

supernova777

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #87 on: August 18, 2015, 03:08:26 AM »
u mean the speakers that connect digitally via a 3.5mm jack on the back?
i never had a pair of those..
they work with the Digital Audio / Quicksilvers + MDDs only i think (other than the imac that is)
not sure if any laptops supported those speakers i cant remember

Offline Knezzen

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #88 on: August 18, 2015, 03:32:39 AM »
u mean the speakers that connect digitally via a 3.5mm jack on the back?
i never had a pair of those..
they work with the Digital Audio / Quicksilvers + MDDs only i think (other than the imac that is)
not sure if any laptops supported those speakers i cant remember

The white iBook G3's did IIRC.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #89 on: August 18, 2015, 11:47:16 AM »
Well, an update of sorts.

I used the Unsupported G4s ISO and it does boot my iMac G4 1 Ghz flat panel.

The only issue is I have no sound at all.

 did you have the same issue if you startup from HD with a full system folder?  (with the iMic ROM ofcourse).
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Offline baraktorvan

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #90 on: August 19, 2015, 05:06:39 PM »
Yes I did. No sound when booted from the hard drive with a full OS 9 installed. At least I assume it was a full install, as I followed the directions exactly when I booted with the Unsupported G4 CD Diehard posted at http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2143.0.

Just to make sure, I rerun Drive Setup and reinstalled a second time-still no sound.

Launching the Sound control panel, I noted that it is using the Built In but I cannot adjust any of the speaker volumes-the bar just does not want to move any higher than the very low setting it is in.

I would note sounds works fine in Tiger.

Offline baraktorvan

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #91 on: August 19, 2015, 05:09:06 PM »
Yeah, the ones that plug in to the back of my G4 MDD FW800. The previous ones got shorted out when the 15" iMac I was running OS 9 on died it's smoky death.


u mean the speakers that connect digitally via a 3.5mm jack on the back?
i never had a pair of those..
they work with the Digital Audio / Quicksilvers + MDDs only i think (other than the imac that is)
not sure if any laptops supported those speakers i cant remember

Offline baraktorvan

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #92 on: August 22, 2015, 02:20:44 PM »
Okay, tried it a total of four times. Still no sound. Think I will just give up.

Offline Mmxguy

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #93 on: April 03, 2016, 10:44:37 PM »
Hello Everyone

After a week of trying I've finally booted my 1 Ghz 17" FP G4 into MacOS 9.

Firstly the Unsupported G4s 9.2 ISO would not boot on this computer (It would show up when option key booted, but flash with ? disk)
Secondly tried restoring the Unsupported G4s 9.2 ISO - Macos9lives.img to a separate partition on internal hdd (It would show up also when option key booted, but also flash with ? disk)

This is what finally booted.
1.
Changed nvram of computer using script from iMic and bleak originally i think
(https://www.thinkclassic.org/viewtopic.php?id=46&p=7)

-------------------------------
#!/bin/sh
echo Enabling OS 9 booting...
echo "You may have to enter your password"
# Use nvram command to setup nvramrc with script to make open firmware changes
sudo nvram nvramrc='" /" select-dev
" PowerBook4,3" encode-string " model" property
" PowerBook4,3" encode-string " MacRISC" encode-string encode+ " MacRISC2" encode-string encode+ " MacRISC3" encode-string encode+ " Power Macintosh" encode-string encode+ " compatible" property
00000000 " graphic-options" get-my-property 2drop !
unselect

" /cpus/PowerPC,G4@0" find-package if drop " /cpus/PowerPC,G4@0" find-device 80010201 encode-int " cpu-version" property then

device-end \ PLX-OS9-PATCH
'
# Enable use of nvramrc on boot. Change to "false" if you want to disable again. Or just clear/reset nvram.
sudo nvram "use-nvramrc?"=true
echo done.

----------------------

2.
Run this script then could format and partition hdd into 2 and install OS 9 disk drivers with Tiger installation disk. (This wasn't available before changing nvram!)

3.
Back in Tiger, restored the unsupported G4s macos9lives.img to the second partition which was created (That also had the OS 9 disk drivers installed)

4. 
Restarted computer (option key) clicked onto OS9 partition (Again didn't boot, ? disk flashing)

5.
Rebooted Tiger, launched a "classic" application which initialised the "Classic" environment.

6.
Went to StartUp Disk in the Tiger System Preferences and was able to select OS 9 (This had not been an option before changing the nvram settings)

7. 
Computer rebooted and to my surprise finally booted OS 9!!!

8. 
It crashed booting up the first time, so I restarted the computer this time when OS 9 was booting holding down left shift to turn of extensions.  It booted to a functioning state.

9.  Restarted again, this time it booted successfully normally with all extensions.

I know this post is long winded however I'm trying to prevent someone giving up on booting OS9 (Like i nearly did!)
So far on this setup, looks like just 256 colors at 1440 x 900, no sound from internal speakers (Sound from headphone jack working)



Offline nanopico

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #94 on: April 04, 2016, 06:13:07 AM »
We have a ROM available that will make the NVRAM script no longer required. (At least that is the intent hasn't been fully tested yet so word of caution).

You can download it from here.
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2727.msg19816.html#msg19816

It hasn't been integrated to any of the iso's yet.
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Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #95 on: April 04, 2016, 08:28:45 AM »
Quote
It hasn't been integrated to any of the iso's yet.

NANOPICO has done some awesome work here, many hours of labor, his work will be integrated into a downloadable ISO as soon as we get testers and make any needed changes.

Unfortunately, I have been very busy the last 2 months modifying PHP files and SQL databases to get the site migrated to the new server.  Now that we are running on a new platform, we will be faster and more stable for our multi-national user base.

I would like to thank ALL of you for all your hard work.  After my brain and body (little sleep last week) get back up to speed, I will be focusing on broken content and adding NEW content in the downloads.

Lastly, domain has been renewed for the next 3 years; so we are Alive for a while !

Offline nanopico

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #96 on: April 04, 2016, 08:30:45 AM »
Quote
It hasn't been integrated to any of the iso's yet.

NANOPICO has done some awesome work here, many hours of labor, his work will be integrated into a downloadable ISO as soon as we get testers and make any needed changes.

Thank you for the kind words.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 08:33:47 AM by DieHard »
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Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #97 on: April 04, 2016, 08:34:46 AM »
Anytime... who knows... Santa may pay you another visit this year :)

Any luck on cracking UAD-1 ?

Offline nanopico

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #98 on: April 04, 2016, 08:59:54 AM »
Anytime... who knows... Santa may pay you another visit this year :)

Any luck on cracking UAD-1 ?

Not a lot of time at the moment to work on this (primarily due to some remodeling in my studio (which also effects my development work area), but I have  started looking through the drivers and control panels to try to find which memory address it reads/writes for the authorizations. I've also started poking random data to some addresses on the card.  Though I need to be a little careful of that so I don't render the card useless.
The advantage I have right now is I have the Mackie card (thanks) and a non-Mackie card so once I find the location of the authorizations on the cards I'll have two to compare that have different plugs authorized. 

Maybe I'll work on this more tonight actually.  It would do my mental state some good to dig back into this.
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Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #99 on: April 04, 2016, 09:05:27 AM »
Quote
Though I need to be a little careful of that so I don't render the card useless.

Diehard has about 4 or 5 of those laying around so hack away :)

Offline nanopico

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #100 on: April 04, 2016, 09:06:45 AM »
Quote
Though I need to be a little careful of that so I don't render the card useless.

Diehard has about 4 or 5 of those laying around so hack away :)

Good to know.  I've just been a little careful after bricking two iBook motherboards poking around at the firmware.
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Offline torvan

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #101 on: June 15, 2016, 12:56:34 PM »
iMac 6,1  g4E 1Ghz, 1.25GB RAM. GeForceMx 64 MB  http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.0_17_fp.html

Installed the G4MDD version of OS 9, and it installed perfectly. There is no sound out of the iMac internal speaker once OS 9 boots, but plugging in a pair of speakers into the headphone jack, and we have sound.

I do not have a pair of Pro Speakers to test that particular jack, but I do not see why it wouldn't also.

Sure would be nice to have the internal speakers working, but hell, I am thrilled it just works!

Now though, it is time to install 59 GB of OS9 Apps. Sigh........
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 02:11:39 PM by torvan »

Offline nanopico

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #102 on: June 15, 2016, 01:53:04 PM »
iMac 6,1  g4E 1Ghz, 1.25GB RAM. GeForceMx 64 MB  http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.0_17_fp.html

Installed the G4MDD version of OS 9, and it installed perfectly. There is no sound out of the iMac internal speaker once OS 9 boots, but plugging in a pair of speakers into the headphone jack, and we have sound.

I do not have a pair of Pro Speakers to test that particular jack, but I do not see why it wouldn't also.

Sure would be nice to have the internal speakers working, but hell, I am thrilled it just works!

AWESOME!!!
I do recall this was roughly the same issue with audio on some of the later powerbooks (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this).  It seems that all the machines that demonstrate this issue are the ones that use the intrepid chip for the north/south bridges.  Those seem to be the ones that either sort of work or don't work at all.
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Offline Metrophage

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #103 on: June 15, 2016, 04:36:19 PM »
Very nice! Is it running with graphics acceleration?

Offline torvan

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #104 on: June 15, 2016, 08:10:50 PM »
I am going to have to display my ignorance (as opposed to stupidity which is willful ignorance) and ask "How would I know?"

I can see that the NVIDIA Video Accelerator is loading in my Extensions folder and in ASP.

So I would appreciate learning how to tell!


Offline androda

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #105 on: June 17, 2016, 05:37:20 AM »
iMac 6,1  g4E 1Ghz, 1.25GB RAM. GeForceMx 64 MB  http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.0_17_fp.html

Installed the G4MDD version of OS 9, and it installed perfectly. There is no sound out of the iMac internal speaker once OS 9 boots, but plugging in a pair of speakers into the headphone jack, and we have sound.

I have a very similar mac, and it seems to be getting really close to booting OS 9.

My iMac is: http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.25_17_fp.html
iMac 6,3
PowerPC G4 (3.3)
1.25 GHz processor
167 MHz bus speed
1GB RAM

I burned the image from here to a disk: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2143.0.html

Booted the mac holding down Option, the disk appears as bootable.  Select it, start booting - happy mac!

...Then, before the 'welcome to mac os' screen appears, the screen goes solid black.  The disk drive continues to make sounds (like the mac is reading from the disk) for another minute or two, then silence.  Black screen remains.  Perhaps the display moved to the external port?  I don't have an adapter for that.

Doesn't seem to boot all the way to the desktop.  After waiting for the disk sounds to stop, I types 'macos9' on the keyboard and pressed command-i.  No disk reading sounds.  Pressed random keys and enter and command-o.  Still no sounds.  Power key, followed by enter?  Also nothing.
My Collection: Sunflower iMac G4, Beige G3 (G4 333) w/USB+FW, G4 Mini 1.33, 2x G3 500 Pismos

Offline nanopico

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #106 on: June 17, 2016, 06:08:30 AM »
...Then, before the 'welcome to mac os' screen appears, the screen goes solid black.  The disk drive continues to make sounds (like the mac is reading from the disk) for another minute or two, then silence.  Black screen remains.  Perhaps the display moved to the external port?  I don't have an adapter for that.

Doesn't seem to boot all the way to the desktop.  After waiting for the disk sounds to stop, I types 'macos9' on the keyboard and pressed command-i.  No disk reading sounds.  Pressed random keys and enter and command-o.  Still no sounds.  Power key, followed by enter?  Also nothing.

The most common issue with this is the cpu version check. Which is probably the case for this machine.

You can go into open firmware and type
Code: [Select]
dev /cpus/PowerPC,G4@0

80010201 encode-int " cpu-version" property
That should get it booting. Once booted you can use the ROM found here
http://www.gnerder.com/files/rom.sit
So you don't have to type the code in open firmware and you would not have to use an nvramrc script.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it, or break it so you can fix it!

Offline androda

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #107 on: June 18, 2016, 04:50:49 AM »
You can go into open firmware and type
Code: [Select]
dev /cpus/PowerPC,G4@0

80010201 encode-int " cpu-version" property

Unfortunately, running these open firmware commands didn't get me any further in the boot process.  Still happy mac then black screen.

And by the way, is there an install disc with the updated rom?  That would make testing unsupported machines easier.
My Collection: Sunflower iMac G4, Beige G3 (G4 333) w/USB+FW, G4 Mini 1.33, 2x G3 500 Pismos

Offline nanopico

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #108 on: June 18, 2016, 06:06:25 AM »
You can go into open firmware and type
Code: [Select]
dev /cpus/PowerPC,G4@0

80010201 encode-int " cpu-version" property

Unfortunately, running these open firmware commands didn't get me any further in the boot process.  Still happy mac then black screen.

And by the way, is there an install disc with the updated rom?  That would make testing unsupported machines easier.

I haven't put much effort into the iMac yet, but I decided to fire mine up and I get the same issue as you, so I will see what I can come up with.
I have the same iMac except that min is the 20" model.
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Offline nanopico

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #109 on: June 18, 2016, 06:58:17 AM »
You can go into open firmware and type
Code: [Select]
dev /cpus/PowerPC,G4@0

80010201 encode-int " cpu-version" property

Unfortunately, running these open firmware commands didn't get me any further in the boot process.  Still happy mac then black screen.

And by the way, is there an install disc with the updated rom?  That would make testing unsupported machines easier.

I haven't put much effort into the iMac yet, but I decided to fire mine up and I get the same issue as you, so I will see what I can come up with.
I have the same iMac except that min is the 20" model.

I got mine working.
I did a manual install (like I have been doing with all my machines) that has no extensions what-so-ever.
It booted to desktop with no issue.

It seems that out of the gate many of these unsupported machine has some issue with even the most basic extensions.

I think I'll make an cd image for the base test install I've been using.  This can at least be used as a sort of live cd to validate if a machine can boot to 9.  Then we can start adding extensions and see what breaks.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it, or break it so you can fix it!

Offline torvan

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #110 on: June 19, 2016, 05:38:08 PM »
A quirk or two for mine (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.0_17_fp.html:

Sound does not work internally, works with speakers using the headphone port. Sometimes you have to unplug and plug them back in to the headphone port to get sound out of them No pattern to speak of either.

Sometimes the happy chimes sound, but nothing happens boot wise. So I unplug it, wait 30 or so seconds, then plug back in and it boots. Happens any time the OS locks, but reboots are all good.

It is making me pretty happy, although I wish it was as error free as my G4 MDD FW800.

Offline torvan

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #111 on: October 07, 2016, 05:05:49 PM »
Well I have had success having my 17"  iMac G4 1.25 Ghz running OS 9.2.2 WITH Sound (if I use the headphone jack). But I had to do it this way
  • From OSX 10.4.11:  Partition hard drive using Disk Utility, make a new partition no more than 190 GB.
  • Reboot using the G4 MDD OS9 CD, install to the same partition you have OSX on. Speaker did not work for me, so I used Headphone and it works.
  • Now boot into OSX. Fire up Terminal, issue the following command: bless -folder9 "/System Folder" -use9 and then reboot

Sit back and watch OS 9 boot up, the trash the OSX folders and files, empty the Trash, and enjoy OS9 on the 17" iMac G4 1.25Ghz,  You might be able to not do the OSX install. But this so works for me!

Offline torvan

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 (Flat-panel)
« Reply #112 on: June 27, 2017, 03:23:35 PM »
Okay, I have to add one thing on the 17" iMac G4--for an unknown reason, video is limited to 256 colors when running the version of OS9 for the MDD. Does not matter how many times I run it, it seems like the NVidia MX4 drivers do not allow for running it any higher than that.

So:

  • Video limited to 256 colors
  • Sound does not work from Pro speakers, but will from speakers plugged into the headphone port

Guess it will be back to Tiger or Leopard for this iMac unless anyone has any idea.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4
« Reply #113 on: July 07, 2017, 12:02:08 PM »
Would this OS9General work on a _supported_ iLamp system without a modified ROM?

it should work on all supported systems.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4
« Reply #114 on: February 10, 2018, 04:43:27 PM »
Would this OS9General work on a _supported_ iLamp system without a modified ROM?

it should work on all supported systems.

I know I'm necro posting, but I had some luck getting the internal LCD of the iBook with Radeon 9550 to work in Millions of colors with OS 9, rather than 256 colors.

What you want to do is set some Open Firmware properties for your graphic card.

I don't have any nVidia cards handy, yet, I have one on the way, but you want to set the properties to a known supported nVidia card.

Manly the Device ID, and Subsystem ID, as well as the Name and Model of the parent( most cases dev agp/@10 )

Then on the children NDVA,Dispay@ you'll want to set the Name and the Compatible property.

Something like:

Code: [Select]
dev agp/@10
0000xxxx encode-int " device-id" property
0000xxxx encode-int " subsystem-id" property
" NVDA,Parent" encode-string " name" property
" NVDA,Geforce4MX" encode-string " model" property
dev agp/@10/@0
" NVDA,Dissplay_A" encode-string "name" property
" NVDA,NVMac" encode-string " compatible" property
dev agp/@10/@1
" NVDA,Dissplay_B" encode-string "name" property
" NVDA,NVMac" encode-string " compatible" property
 
 

That's not quite correct, we need the real values from a working OS 9 nVidia card, or better yet a few of them, or all of them, but that's the basic idea. replacing 0000xxxx with the device ID of a real nVidia card.


Offline torvan

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #115 on: September 16, 2018, 09:15:09 PM »
My iMac I posted about earlier died a capacitor blown death, and finding no one who could fix it without it costing 3.0 figure, I found this one for just $40.

iMac G4 1.25Ghz (3.3), PowerMac 6,1,  2 GB RAM, 250 GB Samsung EVO 860 500GB SSD (which I put in), and a newer DVD-RW which I put in.  Video is GeForce FX 5200 (ugh--that may be a problem with my goal).

But a Terminal session with the Machine command reports a 7450 and not a 7445.

So tried the G4 MDD CD , and sure enough the CD is seen via the Option boot,  but then a black screen once it is selected.

So I looked over the Think Classic article and was lost in a sea of iBook attempts as a solution.

I assume then part of the issue is the processor model number? I am open to ideas as I would rather run OS9 than Tiger or Leopard.. .....

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #116 on: October 03, 2018, 04:14:32 PM »
The GF 5200 would likely be a no go, until someone figures out the 'NDRV' or native device driver.

I took a crack at it, with the Go5200 from a 12" PowerBook, but I didn't get anywhere with it.

At one time, many years ago I had luck using an 'NDRV' for a 5200 PCI card to get it to work with some versions of OS X that didn't support nVidia PCI cards.

However, I've been unable to find that 'NDRV' again, and I haven't much clue where I got it from in the first place, something from 10.2, I think.

Anyway, the 'NDRV' would only give basic screen resolution control and bit depth, there is never likely to be Graphics Acceleration for the 5200+ for OS 9. That would require someone to write drivers for not only the cards but also replace the entire graphics stack in OS 9, as Apple never made any public way to write drivers to conform with OS 9's Libraries.

FP iMacs with GF4MX should be doable, but I've not been able to get my hands on one to hack.

As far as the black screen, shine a very bright light on it, and I bet you would see the backlight is off, and the machine has crashed at some point in the boot process.

I know a little of the backlight control for ATI cards, hacking the Mac OS ROM may yield a working backlight.

Again, I'd have to get my hands on one to see what magic could be done. 

Offline ZenecadE

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #117 on: October 26, 2018, 04:07:58 AM »
I'm very new to all of this.  I'll open a new thread if told to.  This one was pinned.  I have tried for a week now, reading a lot which is way over my head. 

My iMac is manufactured in mid 2003,  It's iLamp 800Mhz USB 1 with geforce 4MX 32MB.  From what I've been able to find, it's an X only model.  From MacTrons post, it's should be OS 9 bootable but I cannot.  I have tried a ton of images but simply cannot get this machine to boot OS9.  Can somebody please help me with baby english instructions?  Almost goo goo gaga level.

Offline torvan

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #118 on: October 26, 2018, 02:25:55 PM »
Unfortunately, like me, you are stuck with X right now. We have no way yet to install OS9 with the GeForce video chips, just the ATI ones.

I'm very new to all of this.  I'll open a new thread if told to.  This one was pinned.  I have tried for a week now, reading a lot which is way over my head. 

My iMac is manufactured in mid 2003,  It's iLamp 800Mhz USB 1 with geforce 4MX 32MB.  From what I've been able to find, it's an X only model.  From MacTrons post, it's should be OS 9 bootable but I cannot.  I have tried a ton of images but simply cannot get this machine to boot OS9.  Can somebody please help me with baby english instructions?  Almost goo goo gaga level.

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #119 on: October 27, 2018, 05:05:50 AM »
Unfortunately, like me, you are stuck with X right now. We have no way yet to install OS9 with the GeForce video chips, just the ATI ones.

I'm very new to all of this.  I'll open a new thread if told to.  This one was pinned.  I have tried for a week now, reading a lot which is way over my head. 

My iMac is manufactured in mid 2003,  It's iLamp 800Mhz USB 1 with geforce 4MX 32MB.  From what I've been able to find, it's an X only model.  From MacTrons post, it's should be OS 9 bootable but I cannot.  I have tried a ton of images but simply cannot get this machine to boot OS9.  Can somebody please help me with baby english instructions?  Almost goo goo gaga level.

There is not reason it can't work, the Geforce chips in these Mac's should be fully supported under OS 9, it just likely takes some hackery to get things going.

Really, your iMac 800 doesn't differ very much at all from the iMac 800 that fully supported OS 9 booting.

Start with the basics, install OS 9 in the Classic Env on a disk with OS 9 drivers on the Hard Disk( Easy way to do this is to boot the iMac in Firewire target disk mode and format the drive from a supported Mac, if you can't do it that way, I'll tell you how to do it from the OS X install CD/DVD, just ask(( WARNING YOU WILL LOSE ALL THE DATA ON YOUR HD SO BACK UP FIRST)), then boot Open Firmware and enter debugging mode:

Code: [Select]
dev / 3013FFF encode-int " AAPL,debug" property
Boot the Mac OS  ROM, if it helps put an unmodified copy in a folder named ppc at the root of your OS 9 partition, then.

Code: [Select]
boot hd:9,:\ppc\:tbxi
In this example hd:9 is the ninth partition of your drive. To make sure your ppc folder is on the ninth partition do:

Code: [Select]
dir hd:9,\
That will list all files and folders on the ninth partition. If you have OS X installed, in the terminal do:

Code: [Select]
diskutil list
That will list all your partitions, find the name and partition number of the drive you put the Mac OS ROM in the ppc folder.

So if you have a drive named MacHD, and it is HFS+ on the tenth partition, and that is the drive you put the ROM in the ppc folder( you create this folder ).

Then you nee to boot the 10th partition:

Code: [Select]
boot hd:10,\ppc\:tbxi
:tbxi is just sort form for Mac OS ROM.

You'l get a bunch of debugging info, the last line will be "Off to Mac OS". Then your screen may turn it's backlight off, let me know if that happens, or doesn't.

If the backlight stays on, you'll enter the Nanokernel log while the system is trying to boot.

Let us know what happens, and we'll tell you how to proceed

Offline ZenecadE

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #120 on: October 29, 2018, 01:16:55 AM »
darthnVader.  Wow thanks a mil man.  I only saw the forum post today.  I'll give these commands a try this evening when I'm home to see what happens and give feedback.  Just to correct my previous post, my G4 has the GF2MX not the 4. 

Currently there is an 80GB HDD installed.  The drive was partitioned to 2 40GB partitions, both are HFS but the partition reserved for OS 9 has journaling disabled.  When setting up the computer, I booted 10.4 Tiger retail DVD and used Disk utility to make the two partitions as well as made sure the 'Install disk drivers' option was selected.  Running 'info' on the drive shows this as correct when comparing to other screenshots I found online.

I have tried the following:
Restoring the IMG file from various MacOS9Lives discs to the OS 9 partition. 
Installed from 9.1 retail disc in classic mode as well as some 9.2.2's I could find.
Force bless on OS9 system folder. (These commands were confusing, including the next points.)
I found a forum posting on another website where I think the OF commands were to trick the OS into thinking I had a different CPU.
In some instances, the system would sit on flashing question mark and not boot anything but other times it would just go straight to X, do not pass go and do not collect $200.
In every instance, the system would not even attempt to boot OS 9 discs.  X would start when I finally stop holding the C key.

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #121 on: October 29, 2018, 03:29:07 AM »
darthnVader.  Wow thanks a mil man.  I only saw the forum post today.  I'll give these commands a try this evening when I'm home to see what happens and give feedback.  Just to correct my previous post, my G4 has the GF2MX not the 4. 

Currently there is an 80GB HDD installed.  The drive was partitioned to 2 40GB partitions, both are HFS but the partition reserved for OS 9 has journaling disabled.  When setting up the computer, I booted 10.4 Tiger retail DVD and used Disk utility to make the two partitions as well as made sure the 'Install disk drivers' option was selected.  Running 'info' on the drive shows this as correct when comparing to other screenshots I found online.

I have tried the following:
Restoring the IMG file from various MacOS9Lives discs to the OS 9 partition. 
Installed from 9.1 retail disc in classic mode as well as some 9.2.2's I could find.
Force bless on OS9 system folder. (These commands were confusing, including the next points.)
I found a forum posting on another website where I think the OF commands were to trick the OS into thinking I had a different CPU.
In some instances, the system would sit on flashing question mark and not boot anything but other times it would just go straight to X, do not pass go and do not collect $200.
In every instance, the system would not even attempt to boot OS 9 discs.  X would start when I finally stop holding the C key.

Code: [Select]
" /" select-dev
" PowerMac4,2" encode-string " MacRISC" encode-string encode+ " MacRISC2" encode-string encode+ " MacRISC3" encode-string encode+ " Power Macintosh" encode-string encode+ " compatible" property

Likely that is the code needed to boot your iMac, the CPU is known to OS 9, it's the same CPU used in the 800Mhz iMac that supports OS 9 booting.

Offline ZenecadE

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #122 on: October 29, 2018, 10:51:38 AM »
darthnVader... I don't know what species / humans bred you but man... YOU ARE BRILLIANT!!  I've googled more than I have in a looong time and couldn't find what you happen to know.  THANK YOU!  I booted OF the ran the commands in the post above at wham bam thank you ma'am, OS 9 on Option boot!  I am really and truly stoked and thankful for your help.  I havn't the time to see what does and / or doesn't work but will give feedback when I do this.  (December maybe)

If you find yourself in South Africa, look me up... you deserve a Bells.  But don't come here for just the Bells, you will get mugged sooner rather than later.

Offline ZenecadE

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #123 on: October 29, 2018, 11:43:39 AM »
All the time I had to test is up :(  Here is some feedback.
The command works and the OS 9 discs now boot to desktop.  The 3 discs I tried all give an error on install at the same point.  Something about cannot read audio cd player something something.  I didn't note it as no time... Only enough for 1 more test.
I booted X then restored the MacOS9Lives img to the OS 9 partition.
OS 9 not showing in Select Startup Disk. 
Reboot to OF and retype command then mac-boot with option pressed.  OS selector only sees X and 9 install cd.  I boot cd, open OS 9 partition and drag finder from System Folder and then drag it back.  All icons changed as expected.  OS 9 cd nor partition show on Option startup nor Startup Disk.

2 things.  I'm either missing a command to commit changes to pram or whatever.  OR the flat battery on the board is throwing a spanner in the works.  The closest I could find to a replacement fit is a 3v Energizer 123.  I have a few 3.6v cellphone batteries so I'll modify something to hook one up.  I have to get back to the second job now :(

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #124 on: October 29, 2018, 02:44:44 PM »
Do you have OS 9 and OS X on the same partition?

Only one System can be blessed at a time that way, I normally make two HFS+ partitions, one for OS 9, the other for OS X.

Offline ZenecadE

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #125 on: October 29, 2018, 03:07:44 PM »
One drive and 2 partitions.  Time gets reset when I unplug the cord so the dead battery may be causing it to lose sight of OS 9.  Just a guess though.

Offline ZenecadE

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #126 on: October 30, 2018, 02:36:54 AM »
Ok, no attempts to boot from hard drive have worked in any way.  The discs I have for 9 all boot but all fail with the same error at the same point.  Basically when it starts reading / copying files near the start I get an error that complains about cannot read audio cd player file and that I need to move it to another location and try again.  This even happens on 9.1 retail.
I have tried to bless the OS 9 folder by booting X to single user but this doesn't seem to have worked as the system still only sees X on startup.  It also does not see any of the OS 9 cd's until I type the command above again but as usual, this stop working the moment the computer reboots. (It only works if I mac-boot after typing the command.)
There are still a few things to try but not right now.  If any of you have suggestions to try, send them my way.  Once I get this system fully working on 9 I'll make a step by step howto for my model and give credit where due.

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #127 on: October 30, 2018, 04:27:01 AM »


Really, it's best to have OS 9 on it's own partition.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 04:55:11 AM by darthnVader »

Offline ZenecadE

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #128 on: October 30, 2018, 05:35:05 AM »
OS 9 is and always has been on it's own partition.  1 drive to serve them all. two partitions to share the land.  OS X is and always has been installed on the first partition (HFS+ Journaled.) OS 9 has always only been on the second partition, including the Classic install.  This partition can be formatted, reloaded, converted, deleted all independently from the X partition.  There is no native OS 9 software on the X partition,  OS 9 partition is also configured to be ignored by Finder in X.

I have fore many years played with operating systems and am well aware of partition structures on the x86 river bank but PPC is new to me in every way.  Despite this, I still believed in setting the drive up as two completely independent partitions specifically to try get 9 going.  I'm not phased at all about keeping X on this iMac since the G5 runs the same OS much faster and more happily.  The G4 is a bit sluggish with Tiger.  The only reason X is still there at this point is because OS 9 installer seems to fail religiously on every medium I've tried.  The firewire install option cannot be tried because I don't own any nor know anyone that owns the correct wires.

USB booting may still be an option as the 10.5 installer I made for the G5 was visible as a boot option when plugged into the G4.  I can try set up a USB drive as a test for 9. 

My wife has given me permission to spend 2 hours on the iMac tonight.  What a lucky day :)

Offline ZenecadE

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #129 on: October 30, 2018, 10:19:05 AM »
Ok, made it to the desktop from the hard drive.  Not sure why yet but for some reason, it won't boot off the partition I prepared for 9.  One of my attempts to install 9 natively, I created a temp folder on the X drive and copied the contents of a 9.2.2 boot disc there. Booting back into 9 CD then running the setup from that temp folder gets me no further than any other setup as it stops with the exact same error.

On a subsequent test, I boot into X by accident after typing the OF commands.  While in X, I opened startup disk and it shows available boot volumes, namely Tiger, OS 9 CD and the temp folder on the X partition but not the one on the partition configured for 9?? Anyway, I then deleted the contents of the temp folder then copied the OS 9 partition files to the partition which is home to X.  Back in Startup folder I now see the OS9 on X volume and select that to bless the folder. After reboot, it shows the blue disc with smiley and question mark as expected.  A quick reboot to OF, run the required commands then mac-boot and voiala! OS9 welcome :)

Now to figure out how to boot without having to type a lengthy command in OF every time I restart.

Offline ZenecadE

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #130 on: October 31, 2018, 01:16:45 AM »
Ok, replaced the battery with a home made 3.6v battery but I still have to type the commands every time I restart.

On the plus side, I have shortened the commands to:
" /" select-dev
" PowerMac4,2" encode-string " MacRISC" encode-string encode+ " compatible" property

A quick question, the ROMS posted on page 1 of this thread, are they supposed to bypass me having to type this commands in every time or is the PRAM battery supposed to assist in 'remembering' what I typed above after a restart?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 02:31:05 AM by ZenecadE »

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #131 on: October 31, 2018, 05:06:02 AM »
Ok, replaced the battery with a home made 3.6v battery but I still have to type the commands every time I restart.

On the plus side, I have shortened the commands to:
" /" select-dev
" PowerMac4,2" encode-string " MacRISC" encode-string encode+ " compatible" property

A quick question, the ROMS posted on page 1 of this thread, are they supposed to bypass me having to type this commands in every time or is the PRAM battery supposed to assist in 'remembering' what I typed above after a restart?

There is an nvramrc script you can edit and use from the terminal in OS X. The nvram is flash based storage in the boot rom, so it doesn't require the pram battery, just be careful, changes can leave your Mac unbootable, with no way to clear the nvram.

 

Offline ZenecadE

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: iMac G4 Flat-panel (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #132 on: November 01, 2018, 12:42:18 AM »
Firstly, I would like to thank MacTron for starting this thread, darthnVader for putting me on the right track and SnakeCoils for providing the ROM.  Without these friendly chaps, I would still be struggling.

It looks like all is working to the level that I wanted.  Here is my hardware.  iLamp iMac 4,2 G4 800MHz manufactured June 2003.  15" flat panel, Geforce 2MX 32MB, USB1, listed as X only.  I replaced the faulty DVD ROM drive and replaced the PRAM battery with a home made setup until I can source the correct cell locally.

Ok, here are the steps I followed for my system.

Boot from Tiger retail DVD
In Disk Utility, erase internal hard drive to 2 partitions and make sure install OS 9 Drivers is checked. (WARNING! This step erases all content on internal hard disk.)
Install Tiger to one of the partitions.
Boot into Tiger and mount the IMG file as found on the MacOS9Lives 2013 disc.  Drag and drop the contents of the mounted IMG to the second partition.  (At this point, OS9 did not appear under Startup Disk.
Restart Mac and boot to Open Firmware (Cmd + Opt + O + F)
Type the following in order:
" /" select-dev
" PowerMac4,2" encode-string " MacRISC" encode-string encode+ " MacRISC2" encode-string encode+ " MacRISC3" encode-string encode+ " Power Macintosh" encode-string encode+ " compatible" property
mac-boot
Let Tiger boot
Head on to page 1 of this thread and look for the ROM posted by SnakeCoils.  Download and extract that to Tiger desktop.
Drag the ROM file to the "System Folder" for the OS9 you dragged to the second partition above.  (Overwrite the existing file.)
Now, provided you booted with the commands above, you should see the OS9 install in Startup Disk.
From this point onward, my system now correctly boots to OS 9 without me having to type the above commands every time. 

A note though.  If I boot back into Tiger without the commands listed above, I don't get OS9 under startup disk.  However, if we don't boot into Tiger, the commands are no longer required.

Guys, thanks again for all your help.  darthnVader, I still owe you a Bells for the initial help.