Author Topic: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain  (Read 10234 times)

Offline arjen_1

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Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« on: June 04, 2014, 12:12:31 PM »
Hi,

I am just wondering; which VST plugin is the best for maximizing loudness? I've used the Steinberg LoudnessMaximiser and TC MaxIT. Both do the job. I am just wondering what you guys use.

I am also interested in the mastering FX chain setup. Most of the time I've mastered outside my DAW in SonicWorx. I am not always happy with the result so I want to try to stay in the box. (Cubase VST)

It's my personal goal to get that pro sound @ OS9. Last night I listedend to my old late '90 house tracks; no money so my Mac LC & Akai & Korg gear had to do the job. No mastering at all...if I only could travel back in time! Then again...I did perform at the large raves parties, got paid and nobody complained.  ;D

Greetz,
Arjen
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Offline DieHard

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2014, 06:17:49 PM »
Under OS 9, My 2 absolute favorites are TC Master X3 (PowerCore) and 1176 (UAD 1 Card)... but there are 2 issues with Master X3...

1) you need an original TC PowerCore PCI Card (NOT element) to run the plugin

2) Under OS 9, the Master X3 Plugin was custom generated for each card by serial number...TC (even before they abandoned Powercore), was giving me a real hassle about making Making the Master X3 plugins for the cards I bought 2nd hand... In 2010, I threatened them legally, and explained how the box clearly states that the Master X3 plugin is included and to contact them to get it... They finally found their OS 9 Unit and generated 2 more Master X3s for the Cards I bought; don't know if they will even answer the phone these days about PowerCore
Still a worthwhile investment for the other plugins included

The UAD 1 "Mackie" version (get one on eBay for less than $80) is amazing, the Limiters, Compressors, and Eqs surpass almost all native OS 9 plugins and easily give you pro mastering results

Offline arjen_1

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2014, 12:11:09 PM »
The UAD 1 "Mackie" version (get one on eBay for less than $80) is amazing, the Limiters, Compressors, and Eqs surpass almost all native OS 9 plugins and easily give you pro mastering results

Allright UAD is the way to go. Can I conclude that all non-mackie versions are worthless?
So I found this one but the seller can't tell/know's if it's the Mackie version.

http://www.marktplaats.nl/a/audio-tv-en-foto/professionele-audio-tv-en-video-apparatuur/m810103094-uad-dsp-1-kaart-met-standaard-plug-in-bundel.html

How can I recognize if it is a Mackie or UAD version?
 
Greetz,
Arjen
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Offline DieHard

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2014, 10:13:48 PM »
I am so sorry for not clarifying...

They all say UAD-1, but unlike the Project Pak or Flexi Pak products; The Mackie version of the UAD-1 PCI expansion card is extra special as it comes with the following UAD plugins included: LA2A, 1176, Pultec EQP-1A, Real-Verb Pro, Nigel (Guitar Amp), CS-1 Channel Strip.

No need to authorize anything...no need to even register it... if it is a "mackie" UAD1 it will allow all those plugins to work immediately after install...

For OS 9 you want to download 3.9.0 from the archives and install it... that simple to get all the MAS and VST plugins... all auto-activated, that is why it is important to get the "Mackie" version or you will have less plugins that are ready to go... with the Mackie version you don't even have to get the old owner to transfer plugins (unless they bought additional ones and want to transfer them); so not you can buy the cheap eBay auctions that say 'UAD-1 Mackie" no software, just card only, no transfers "Pulled from a working system"

This link will give you mare details... http://www.zzounds.com/item--MACUAD1

Link to software: http://www.uaudio.com/support/uad/archives.html

Offline IIO

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2014, 10:52:58 PM »

i am not too fond of "maximizers", i prefer to use compression only.

on the digital platform, STEM mastering is affordable and in my opinion the way to go.

last but not least, who says electronic music or rock may not contain some dynamics?

of course the interesting things, such as parallel compression, are hard to realize in OS9, nuendo, max/msp or CSound are more or less the only enviroments which give you the required flexibility.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline arjen_1

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2014, 01:11:29 AM »
last but not least, who says electronic music or rock may not contain some dynamics?

I don't. But the general public does. Since the 90's recordings have been up to 30% (perceived) louder. In other words people want hot mixes and really don't care if it sounds natural or not.  It has to be familiar & sound good on cheap mp3 players & bluetooth speakers. How many people actually listen (electronic) music on quality hi/fi? It's a shame. I am in the middle; yes I want dynamics but I also want my mixes to be heard/recognized.  ::) So I'll be looking for a cheap UAD Mackie.



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Offline IIO

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2014, 12:54:50 PM »
the UAD is at least way better than the old spectral design stuff.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2014, 04:00:41 PM »
2) Under OS 9, the Master X3 Plugin was custom generated for each card by serial number...TC (even before they abandoned Powercore), was giving me a real hassle about making Making the Master X3 plugins for the cards I bought 2nd hand... In 2010, I threatened them legally, and explained how the box clearly states that the Master X3 plugin is included and to contact them to get it... They finally found their OS 9 Unit and generated 2 more Master X3s for the Cards I bought

same problem here, i have a legit master X-5 which was included with my cards, but then the TCworks website disappeared and i couldnt get a serial for it.

but it could be worse. lets be lucky we are not users of creamware: they even sell hardware which doesnt work as advertised and then pretend to be deaf or get rude when you ask.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline SonikArchitects

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2014, 06:58:39 PM »
My votes are Master X (5 band) and Maxium. They are both different in character but equally amazing. Make L1 look comedic!
Best,
_BT

Offline IIO

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2014, 01:58:01 PM »
maxium? i did not build it, so who did? :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline arjen_1

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2014, 01:43:19 AM »
Got a cheap first edition TC powercore card! Couldn't find the UAD Mackie version. 
I noticed the Virus & V-Station powercore plugins. Are there any OS9 compatible powercore versions of those?

Greetz,
Arjen
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 09:24:27 AM by arjen_1 »
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Offline MacTron

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2014, 06:20:55 AM »
I noticed the Virus & V-Station powercore plugins. Are there any OS9 compatible powercore versions of those
No... AFAIK :(
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

supernova777

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2014, 10:11:16 AM »
Got a cheap first edition TC powercore card! Couldn't find the UAD Mackie version. 
I noticed the Virus & V-Station powercore plugins. Are there any OS9 compatible powercore versions of those?

Greetz,
Arjen

see this is where u have a 2nd mac running osx and u network via midi + audio to be able to use these plugins from mac os 9. using the 2nd computer as a midi synth module.
simple.

Offline arjen_1

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2014, 12:45:33 PM »
see this is where u have a 2nd mac running osx and u network via midi + audio to be able to use these plugins from mac os 9. using the 2nd computer as a midi synth module.
simple.

Totally right! But it's just that I want to keep my sanity! http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1170.msg4502#msg4502
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_hoarding

Just kidding.  ;D
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Offline IIO

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2014, 01:11:54 PM »

the two other options are windowx OS or the hardware versions.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline arjen_1

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2014, 12:13:19 AM »
the two other options are windowx OS or the hardware versions.

I actually own the Novation A-Station which is essentially the same ast the K- / V-Station. The Virus is tempting but I am trying to recover from GAS.  ;)
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supernova777

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2014, 02:50:24 AM »
but its the beauty of midi..
u can sequence from within os9.. and trigger sounds via midi to the synth plugins running whatever os u want..
as long as u have a physical L/R input to jack the sounds into.. and the midi in/out to pull it off..
;)
this has always been my plan to be able to use these plugins on any os.. using it as though it was a piece of hardware
because for any given software versions u might have a working version on windows.. but not on mac for some things, and vice versa

Offline arjen_1

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2014, 05:38:19 AM »
Under OS 9, My 2 absolute favorites are TC Master X3 (PowerCore) and 1176 (UAD 1 Card)... but there are 2 issues with Master X3...

Well, I got the Powercore card, and TC states that I can get the X3 too. Would be great. However I have some compatability issues between my soundcard (ESI U24, Ploytec USB Audio driver) and the powercore card. After a few seconds while loading/using a Powercore plugin audio stops working (harsh white noise/distortion).  Drives me crazy. After I downgraded audio to 16bit all works fine and the plugin's sound great. However I want to stay on 24 bit so the powercore seems useless for my setup. Any clues or suggestions? Otherwise...it's up for sale because I don't want to change my audiocard.
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Offline IIO

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2014, 09:24:42 AM »
Under OS 9, My 2 absolute favorites are TC Master X3 (PowerCore) and 1176 (UAD 1 Card)... but there are 2 issues with Master X3...

Well, I got the Powercore card, and TC states that I can get the X3 too.

the company TC Works was closed 10 years ago :D
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2014, 10:33:04 AM »
TC works was in any way related to TC electronics?
ACCORDING TO SOS http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug98/articles/tcnative.html
yes, they are.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TC_Electronic
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 11:06:42 AM by Protools5LEGuy »
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline IIO

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2014, 11:59:28 AM »
yes of course, you could call them sisters. which is why i think it was so hilarious to close the website after only a few months and stop (re)issueing licenses to registered users who have paid for the products.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline arjen_1

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2014, 02:19:33 PM »
the company TC Works was closed 10 years ago :D

Well they resurrected. Don't you know it was unknown at the time that a small dose of "coup de poudre," including the pufferfish neurotoxin TTX and the drug Datura were slipped into an TC sub-routine the day before causing TC to merely appear dead!  ;D

No seriously; I am really impressed about TC's support for the powercore card. Today I registered my card, asked TC support to generate me the X3 plugin for OS9. And within 30 minutes I got a personal download link from my new TC buddy Henrik. Well something tells me that TC knows what customer service is all about. I am impressed.

As for the card. It's a true pain in the *** to get it running stable with my Ploytec USB audio driver. The plugins however sound really good. With different buffer, asio & sync settings I managed to get it working on 24 bit. The problem seems to be the audio card buffer which must be around 1000 samples. As soon I use higher latencies, buffers which exceed 2000 samples, all hell breaks loose. I also needed to change the card adma buffer to 2 channels. I haven't tested it properly in a real production but as far as I can tell all is working.

Greetz,
Arjen
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Offline IIO

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2014, 05:25:54 PM »
u joking? the new TCE is giving OS9 support? that would mean +1 in my VST folder and i could have had it since years! :D
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline DieHard

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2014, 05:56:02 PM »
Quote
Well they resurrected. Don't you know it was unknown at the time that a small dose of "coup de poudre," including the pufferfish neurotoxin TTX and the drug Datura were slipped into an TC sub-routine the day before causing TC to merely appear dead!

Arjen... using up all my material...I didn't think anyone ever read that on the main website lol :)

Offline DieHard

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2014, 06:03:14 PM »
Quote
Under OS 9, the Master X3 Plugin was custom generated for each card by serial number...TC (even before they abandoned Powercore), was giving me a real hassle about making Making the Master X3 plugins for the cards I bought 2nd hand
Wow... can't believe they genned you a Master X3 for OS 9  in 2014 !

The PowerCore PCI plugin suite run best as VST plugins in Cubase & Nuendo... no issues whats so ever as compared other hosts... automatic plug in compensation and everything stays in time... other hosts need to put a "Powercore" compensator on the tracks that do not use any plugins, which I have always thought was ass-backwards.

Offline arjen_1

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2014, 01:40:03 AM »
Wow... can't believe they genned you a Master X3 for OS 9  in 2014 !

Again proof that OS9 is alive! ;D
I searched the TC website and found this post about the latest OS9 drivers:
http://support.tcelectronic.com/entries/20920453-PowerCore-1-6-1-for-Mac-OS-9

For getting the X3:
http://support.tcelectronic.com/entries/20898271

First you'll have to create a powercore account. Register the card (authentication ID). Second you'll have to create a support account. And....email your request. Within minutes you'll receive a generated X3. No complains from me. Especially when you consider the price I paid for the card.

The PowerCore PCI plugin suite run best as VST plugins in Cubase & Nuendo... no issues whats so ever as compared other hosts... automatic plug in compensation and everything stays in time...

The card/plugins stay in sync within Cubase. No problem at all. But I experience major problems with higher latency settings. My audiocard stops working and emits harsh, distorted noises. As soon as I reset it to lower AISO latency settings (<1000 samples) all is doing well on 24 bit. The problem doesn't show while working on 16 bit. But to me that's out of the question. I also have some questions about the slots on the card: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1208.0 Can you tell what these are?

@110 That's definitely +1! Get it while you can.
@Diehard Ofcourse I read the main site. Modern poetry!
« Last Edit: June 27, 2014, 03:55:45 AM by arjen_1 »
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Offline IIO

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2014, 07:29:52 AM »

[/quote]other hosts need to put a "Powercore" compensator on the tracks that do not use any plugins, which I have always thought was ass-backwards.
[/quote]

was that really a powercore specific issue? when the powercore came out most host programs didnt have PDC anyway. cubase 4.1 for example also lacked it on the group channels.


"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline DieHard

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2014, 02:54:21 PM »
Yeah, the quality of the PowerCore plugins under OS 9 were always to notch.. but the implementation it some DAWs was a pain in the ass as far as timing issues...

As far as the Version for OS 9 the final driver package is 1.6.1 and then download ClassicVerb, 24/7-C (two more awesome free plugins)
http://support.tcelectronic.com/entries/20898271
« Last Edit: June 27, 2014, 09:25:36 PM by DieHard »

Offline IIO

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2014, 07:21:44 PM »
a plug-in can emmit its delay info the most elegant way, but it is all of no help if the host ignores it.

"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

supernova777

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2014, 04:16:22 PM »
I am so sorry for not clarifying...

They all say UAD-1, but unlike the Project Pak or Flexi Pak products; The Mackie version of the UAD-1 PCI expansion card is extra special as it comes with the following UAD plugins included: LA2A, 1176, Pultec EQP-1A, Real-Verb Pro, Nigel (Guitar Amp), CS-1 Channel Strip.

No need to authorize anything...no need to even register it... if it is a "mackie" UAD1 it will allow all those plugins to work immediately after install...
1176 LN or 1176 SE?
because the projektpak that i bought is a non mackie version and it also comes with 1176SE and CS-1 activate (amongst others) i had to pay extra for the 1176LN

Offline DieHard

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2014, 08:59:00 PM »
Both versions of 1176 are included free with Mackie version

Offline SonikArchitects

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2017, 03:24:56 PM »
Im with Ilo here in I dislike master bus compression (for working on a track with at least, so many of the dance music guys coming up now work through an Ozone with the threshold set to like -30. I loose sleep over this lol).

That said I love using limiters for things like drum overheads and bass even vocals within a track. In OS9 land Maxim is absolutely amazing. None of the L1 uber squash crap but tons of punch. Within reason of course. Another I LOVE are the TC 3 and 5 bands DieHard mentioned. They are absolutely wonderful.

Best,
_BT

Offline Philgood

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2017, 03:00:09 AM »
...
of course the interesting things, such as parallel compression, are hard to realize in OS9, nuendo, max/msp or CSound are more or less the only enviroments which give you the required flexibility.

Isn't parallel compresion just leaving the uncompressed signal sounding as is aside the compressed signal ?
So why would that be complicated in any DAW.

Will have to take a look what exactly parallel compresion means.
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Offline IIO

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2017, 03:12:38 AM »
So why would that be complicated in any DAW.

well not exactly complicated, but it is an extra step which is unusual for the average user who usually does his first audio premastering right out of the project.

not sure about protools 5, but all other programs in OS9 simply do not allow to put a bus onto 2 other buses.

you could of course use a stereo aux effect for that purpose, but this is even more weird. :)

in a best case scenario the plug-in allows mixing its output against the input or the DAW had it built-in.

otherwise i would mix down to 6 or 8 stems and then have a "premastering" project where i will just copy an audio track in order to have a channel twice if necessary.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: Best plugin for maximizing loundness / Mastering FX chain
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2017, 03:32:10 AM »
ive built myself a custom mixer app for that purpose, which has things like channel copying / parallel insert effects, or mid-side encoder on every channel strip.

but plug-ins require so much CPU in that app that it is no fun to use it under OS9 :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com