Author Topic: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.  (Read 6196 times)

Offline MacTron

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Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« on: May 31, 2014, 08:18:54 AM »
"Another trick in the wall" LOL

If you need open more virtual instrument in Cubase, but your instruments slots are full, the VSTis can be converted in to FX and then can be open as inserts but used as regular virtual instrument!

How to:

Duplicate the VSTi file and open it with ResEdit, Open the VSTx ID = 1 resource and then change the green highlighted 01 by 00 and save the changes.



Now you can open your VSTi as if were an FX!

Unfortunately this trick not always work. I tried it with 3 VSTi's and  it worked only with 2.
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Offline DieHard

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Surpassing the number of instruments, slots limits in Cubase
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2014, 01:18:20 PM »
Another trick in the wall... Part 2

Mactron... I have been selfishly sitting on this one for a while, but now is the time...

Why limit at all ?

Simply load the Spark Instrument Machine (there is also an FX Machine) and get a full Matrix (4 X 5) = 20 VSTis without any Resedits.

You can load 8 Instances of the Machine (8 X 20) = 160 Virtual Instruments... OMG, Mega Crash by just hitting an "A" note

With Each instance of the Spark Machine, the Virtual instruments loaded can be run in Parallel or in Series or any combination... A full Virtual patch bay of endless possibilities.

I have included a Pic for any "non-believers"


In this example, you can see the "Free Alpha" synth and "Plex" loaded in Parallel in the Spark Matrix (Matrix only eats up 1 VSTi slot)

Click for Larger Image...
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 12:11:20 AM by DieHard »

Offline MacTron

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2014, 05:48:47 PM »
 FX Machine is a way better solution than my new trick "...in the wall" :-) . But I have unsuccessfully tried FX Machine in Cubase a few years before. I'll give it another opportunity... and if the end result is that I was so fool that I couldn't put it to work the first time, no problem for my ego, laugh at yourself is avery good thing :-)
...and better if my foolishness let me to an alternate method to doing the same thing ("my trick") LOL x3

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supernova777

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2014, 10:02:52 PM »
Spark Instrument Machine ?
is this in the downloads section?

Offline DieHard

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2014, 12:25:14 AM »
The Spark "Machine" plugin is included with the Suite of TC Electronics Spark Plugins.  I can add it to the download boards if there is interest.  The TC Plugins are very high quality VST plugins, probably the best Native Plugins under OS 9.  The trick to getting them is to install the 2 CD Set of Spark, this will include the Spark application and a bunch of VST Plugins.  Spark will remain unusable since you will need a challenge/response code... but the main "bug" that TC did not realize is that after the install, all the plugins are authorized and they can be copied to other VST Hosts, like Nuendo, Cubase, etc.  If there is interest, I will post the CD set.

Some More Info...(shows the list of high quality plugins that can be used separately, they do not have to be put in the Matrix)

http://www.kvraudio.com/product/spark_fx_machine_by_tc_works

supernova777

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2014, 12:32:51 AM »
The Spark "Machine" plugin is included with the Suite of TC Electronics Spark Plugins.  I can add it to the download boards if there is interest.  The TC Plugins are very high quality VST plugins, probably the best Native Plugins under OS 9.  The trick to getting them is to install the 2 CD Set of Spark, this will include the Spark application and a bunch of VST Plugins.  Spark will remain unusable since you will need a challenge/response code... but the main "bug" that TC did not realize is that after the install, all the plugins are authorized and they can be copied to other VST Hosts, like Nuendo, Cubase, etc.  If there is interest, I will post the CD set.

Some More Info...(shows the list of high quality plugins that can be used separately, they do not have to be put in the Matrix)

http://www.kvraudio.com/product/spark_fx_machine_by_tc_works

so your saying you install it then move and/or copy the vst plugin files to your other vst folders in any other functional vst host and voila?

Offline DieHard

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2014, 12:46:19 AM »
Quote
so your saying you install it then move and/or copy the vst plugin files to your other vst folders in any other functional vst host and voila?

Yep.. that's right...

The FX Machine and instrument Machine were parts of the Spark package called "Spark Modular"... I can post the 2 CD Set... 1 CD is Spark and 1 is Spark modular

Read This: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep00/articles/tcspark.htm

They will yield a lot of useful plugins, simply copy the Plugins to your Host folder, but DO NOT DELETE the "Spark" folder; the application will be useless, but it needs to stay on the hard drive, so just drag the Spark folder it to an unused area.

Offline Jakl

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2014, 04:58:03 AM »
Wasn't there also a SE version sometime back in 2001 for cheap - if I can recall it was only a plugin version not an instrument version - is that right?

I think I may have it somewhere.
But I think the instrument version must be absolutely awesome to use with vsti's. I would definitely be interested.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2014, 10:01:21 AM »
....but I have unsuccessfully tried FX Machine in Cubase a few years before. I'll give it another opportunity...
...well, I finally  put  Instruments Fx Machine to work.

Quote
FX Machine is a way better solution than my new trick "...in the wall" :-) .
not really, just different.

My "new trick in the wall" (I like this title LOL) have some benefits as its can be seen on this picture:



(1) All instrument slots are filled with FM7 instances.
(2) Each one with his audio and MIDI channel.

All impOSCar instances are open as FX inserts (thanks to my trick):
(3) Each one with his own independent audio channel!
(4) And with his own independent MIDI channel!

Cool! :)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 10:19:34 AM by MacTron »
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Offline IIO

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2014, 10:27:20 AM »
funny thread.

last picture == thats what i was thinking too, regarding the spark solution! at least when you are a steinberg user, you really want instruments to behave the way shown in your screenshot.

i also use the resedit way for a handful of plug-ins. have never tried if it works for all? mabye thats my next thing on the to do list?

however, it would be wise to also change the plug-in ID if you do that. so that you can keep the original instrument version installed and use both independently or together.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2014, 11:10:54 AM by 110 »
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
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Offline IIO

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2014, 11:12:54 AM »

oh wow, it actually does not work with a whole lot of products. lets see if we can find a pattern. ive been doing it with synapsa audio products and some freeware stuff and it always worked. but i just tried the PPG and steinberg plug-ins and it did NOT work.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2014, 11:29:57 AM »
okay as it seems it is simply the number of outputchannels. i forgot that the PPG has 4 outputs. :)

well that fits perfectly, you mostly need it for the "small" ones (unless you have a 75GHz G4 upgrade installed.)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline DieHard

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2014, 11:40:51 AM »
Interesting thread... I just mentioned the Spark thing to get a rise out of you guys :)

While Mactron's solution provides maximum control. The Spark solution works best when all instruments are parallel.  This is helpful if you want to create an "Instrument Stack" instrument. It is a great solution, if you want to create a "Thick sounding" synth out of a bunch of "Thin sounding" ones and you don't want to use up a lot of mixer channels or instrument slots.  Each item it the matrix does have a "MIX" level, so you do have at least an effective "volume" control over each instrument.  Any effects (delay, reverb) applied to the channel will obviously be on the Mix of the entire Instrument Matrix.  One MIDI track triggering a bunch of parallel VSTi's is pretty cool, you can make some pretty unique layered sounds without having to copy the same MIDI info to multiple tracks.

Offline IIO

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2014, 11:45:24 AM »

i agree, if you use them parallel, fxmachine is probably the easiest.

just tried PPG in a nuendo surround master bus, but no. lol. the FX version does not even appear in nuendo when you search it with the scan utility.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline MacTron

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2014, 12:05:02 PM »
funny thread.
Thanks :)

Quote
last picture == thats what i was thinking too, regarding the spark solution! at least when you are a steinberg user, you really want instruments to behave the way shown in your screenshot.

This trick was very important for mi because the first thing I usually fulfill in my workflow is the number of instruments ( and afterwards the poliphony )...
The first time I've tried this trick, it didn't worked. I thought that was too easy to be true!.
But I was wrong, I just had the bad lucky to tried it with one of those VST that don't work...

Quote
i also use the resedit way for a handful of plug-ins. have never tried if it works for all?
 mabye thats my next thing on the to do list?

I'm very interested on read about your "ResEdit works" ....

By mi side I still have another two "big ones" to post:
- How to use NI standalone Apps to make standalone versions of other VSTis.
- How to load most of the Kompakt based libraries on NI Kompakt, even those that never were available for Mac Os 9.
Quote
however, it would be wise to also change the plug-in ID if you do that. so that you can keep the original instrument version installed and use both independently or together.

Yes, I've done that already. If you look at the picture You can read "impOSCar FX", the "FX" was added to avoid confusion with the original "impOSCar"

Interesting thread... I just mentioned the Spark thing to get a rise out of you guys :)

While Mactron's solution provides maximum control. The Spark solution works best when all instruments are parallel.  This is helpful if you want to create an "Instrument Stack" instrument. It is a great solution, if you want to create a "Thick sounding" synth out of a bunch of "Thin sounding" ones and you don't want to use up a lot of mixer channels or instrument slots.  Each item it the matrix does have a "MIX" level, so you do have at least an effective "volume" control over each instrument.  Any effects (delay, reverb) applied to the channel will obviously be on the Mix of the entire Instrument Matrix.  One MIDI track triggering a bunch of parallel VSTi's is pretty cool, you can make some pretty unique layered sounds without having to copy the same MIDI info to multiple tracks.

Yes, I agree, both solutions are very useful. Each one of them has his own benefits :)
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Offline IIO

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2014, 12:05:47 PM »
now i almost uploded a generic VSTi to VST crossgrader upgrade patch, but luckily i notived that it also changes the version number of the file to 0.0.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2014, 12:25:27 PM »
Quote
Thanks :)

no, thank you. OS9lives brings my attention back to cubase and the like, normally ive worked only with programming languages during the last years.

Quote
I'm very interested on read about your "ResEdit works" ....

i remember projects/compositions with 20 instances of "scorpion FX" and "mda piano FX". :D

but soon i will try them all and maybe provide an updater. seems i dont have vise updater installed, with rescompare it is a mess (because of the version thing i was talking above.) wasnt there an updater utility for OS9 which gave you some if-then-else and search functions? was could have been its name?

Quote
- How to use NI standalone Apps to make standalone versions of other VSTis.

that will be some more work than changing 2 bits of code. and it does not sound like a good idea to use half an app of another company. it would be less work to write your own i think!

may i ask why would it be no solution for you to just host a plug-in in a host? (which already has ASIO, which lets you open more than one instance, and which has total recall for presets?)

Quote
- How to load most of the Kompakt based libraries on NI Kompakt, even those that never were available for Mac Os 9.

there is a working solution but only for a few of them. please send me an email for more info. for the majority of libraries it can not work, for they require the new functions in newer versions of the kontakt engine.

there are a few, even free ones, which id also like to have running, but most of the NI stuff was available as AKAI, too, afaik.

what i really, really, surprisingly good, is the standard piano coming with K2 OSX. it is by far better than all of the dedicated piano plug-ins and worth alone to buy K2. well, if you have OSX, and if you really want to use this multitasking bullshit with aqua buttons to make music. :D

Quote
Yes, I've done that already

right. and use the same naming convention which NI did for their "FX", fine.

"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline MacTron

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2014, 11:28:29 AM »

Quote
- How to use NI standalone Apps to make standalone versions of other VSTis.

that will be some more work than changing 2 bits of code.

Not really. The basic procedure is to paste aEff and PICT resources in to the host program :)
... of course if you want a more "Pro" result you have to change a few bytes more...

You can check how it goes with the attached example.

Quote
and it does not sound like a good idea to use half an app of another company. it would be less work to write your own i think!

Well, not in my case. I know very little about programing, but enough to know that a "little" project like this, will take me several months or years!

Quote
may i ask why would it be no solution for you to just host a plug-in in a host? (which already has ASIO, which lets you open more than one instance, and which has total recall for presets?)
I usually prefer the VST version of the instruments and effects, but the standalone version has his vantages:
Can be connected to virtually any MIDI software or hardware and are fast and lightweight than a full DAW host.

Quote
- How to load most of the Kompakt based libraries on NI Kompakt, even those that never were available for Mac Os 9.
Quote
there is a working solution but only for a few of them. please send me an email for more info. for the majority of libraries it can not work, for they require the new functions in newer versions of the kontakt engine.

I'll send you a PM about this topic.

Quote
there are a few, even free ones, which id also like to have running, but most of the NI stuff was available as AKAI, too, afaik.

Only a few are available in AKAI format...
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supernova777

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2014, 11:41:05 AM »
another 'trick in the wall'
for those of us with extra pcs/macs

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr01/articles/pcmusician.asp


Offline MacTron

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2014, 11:54:25 AM »
another 'trick in the wall'
for those of us with extra pcs/macs

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr01/articles/pcmusician.asp

This would be better if we could hack Yamaha mLAN drivers (MIDI + Audio over Firewire) to accept Computer to Computer link (as in Linux):

http://download.yamaha.com/search/product/?site=usa.yamaha.com&language=en&category_id1=16244&category_id2=16268&category_id3=&product_id=106050
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supernova777

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2014, 09:58:40 PM »
isnt there another midi over ip project?

it would be amazing but id rather have the real midi interface hardware to interact with hardware synths aswell and do creative midi routing with actual cables! but yes midi over ip would definately be valuable.. -afro- to figure out

Offline IIO

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2014, 07:08:23 AM »

Not really. The basic procedure is to paste aEff and PICT resources in to the host program :)

aha, ok, well i never looked into the NI apps until now (i usually do not even install stand alone versions)

if that would really already do it,  there are still some problems left, such as the copy protection - or is there any free NI standalone? (wasnt tere some reaktor thing which was free?)

Quote
Can be connected to virtually any MIDI software or hardware and are fast and lightweight than a full DAW host.

ok, so you are talking about a situation where you use a computer as one instrument only. well, i still think some leight weight host program will do better, and as it seems the NI programs are more or less also only VST hosts.
well i will look into that later, it is never too late to learn something new about these old programs. :)

about the NI players, i have lost the overview about releases after 2008. today you never really know who is the publisher and if something is a plug-in or just library content ... personally i dont use sample stuff, but i agree that it is fun to make everything available and extend and optimize things until end of times. :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2014, 07:43:44 AM »
midi over ethernet ... there is only OSC which would work ... not perfectly but possible ... you can find it implemented in different ways in reaktor, csound, and supercollider (none of them has VSTi hosting) ... but also in max/msp ... i never used it in classic OS but a basic version of OSC is there.

if some of you have a special request for VST host app i will gladly try to program you one.

but 1. i am not an expert for UDP/TCP networks and 2. with OSC you would eventually do _better things than midi (for example use 32 bit numbers instead of 7 bit numbers)

it should be possible for example to build a VST plug-in which can send data from you main computer workstation over a network to control some other thing on other computers. one could just send the data to local muticast adresses and then filter by "midi" channel on the receiving side.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2014, 07:58:39 AM »

imposcar standalone ... hehe .... well it is not a big surprise, but i didnt know that their apps are just VST hosts.

ASIO and instantiating works fine, but i dont have 96k samplerate  (maybe thats normal for NI players?) midi i cant test now but i guess you did already.

what i dont like with this solution is that you can not run more than one app because of the sound driver. otoh, the plug-in is in the best sense totally integrated :D. if id make you a host program, it could stop working already when you rename the plug-in file ...
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline MacTron

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Re: Surpassing the number of instruments slots limits.
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2014, 11:28:05 AM »

if some of you have a special request for VST host app i will gladly try to program you one.

This could be a very important project so it well deserve his own thread:

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1191.0
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